Question-and-Answer Resource for the Building Energy Modeling Community
Get started with the Help page
Ask Your Question
1

Split type Inverted heat pump model with multiple indoor units

asked 2015-07-01 08:26:16 -0500

Waseem's avatar

updated 2020-01-24 10:13:37 -0500

Is there a way to model split inverted heat pump unit (ductless) with multiple indoor units? I know the PTHP is a single zone system but what if it is connected to multiple indoor units, how to model this scenario then?

edit retag flag offensive close merge delete

3 Answers

Sort by ยป oldest newest most voted
6

answered 2015-07-01 09:37:58 -0500

kwalkerman's avatar

To connect one outdoor unit to multiple indoor units, take a look at the Variable Refrigerant Flow Equipment objects. You will need to use the following:

AirConditioner:VariableRefrigerantFlow - this is the outdoor unit

ZoneTerminalUnitList - this is a list of indoor units. The outdoor unit will reference this list so that it knows which indoor units it is connected to.

ZoneHVAC:TerminalUnit:VariableRefrigerantFlow - this is the indoor unit, and is used instead of the PTHP.

Coil:Cooling:DX:VariableRefrigerantFlow and Coil:Heating:DX:VariableRefrigerantFlow - these are the variable refrigerant cooling and heating coils. Each ZoneHVAC:TerminalUnit:VariableRefrigerantFlow will need one cooling and one heating coil.

The example file: "DOASDXCOIL_wADPBFMethod.idf" shows an implementation of these objects.

edit flag offensive delete link more

Comments

@kwalkerman: Thanks for your answer but in PTHP we only have ZoneHVAC:PackagedTerminalHeatPump, which accommodates coils, fans etc. and we don't have specifically indoor and outdoor units. If I replace ZoneHVAC:TerminalUnit:VariableRefrigerantFlow with ZoneHVAC:PackagedTerminalHeatPump, then what will be outdoor unit for PTHP?

Waseem's avatar Waseem  ( 2015-07-01 10:17:33 -0500 )edit

with ZoneHVAC:PackagedTerminalHeatPump, the performance of the outdoor unit is integrated into directly into the ZoneHVAC unit. There is no separate outdoor unit.

kwalkerman's avatar kwalkerman  ( 2015-07-01 11:37:38 -0500 )edit

@kwalkerman: Sorry if I misunderstood it. Are you suggesting that I should use VRF system and then using multiple terminal units instead of PTHP (as PTHP is limited to one indoor unit i.e. ZoneHVAC:PackagedTerminalHeatPump)?

Waseem's avatar Waseem  ( 2015-07-02 07:43:40 -0500 )edit
1

@Waseem: yes. Use the VRF system with multiple ZoneHVAC:TerminalUnit:VariableRefrigerantFlow units.

kwalkerman's avatar kwalkerman  ( 2015-07-02 11:50:58 -0500 )edit

@kwalkerman: Thanks :)

Waseem's avatar Waseem  ( 2015-07-02 12:28:56 -0500 )edit

@kwalkerman, what type of fan do you use for this? 1) Fan:OnOff doesn't seem to work (if using curves, power is always zero because speed ratio is zero) 2) Fan:VariableVolume is not compatible with AirConditioner:VariableRefrigerantFlow 3) Fan:ConstantVolume won't turn off during hours of no operation (I believe)

Eric Wilson's avatar Eric Wilson  ( 2016-09-29 11:26:51 -0500 )edit

@Eric Wilson - I have used Fan:OnOff sucessfully with both ZoneHVAC:PackagedTerminalHeatPump and ZoneHVAC:TerminalUnit:VariableRefrigerantFlow. When you say that Fan:OnOff doesn't show any energy use due to curves - what curves are you referring to?

kwalkerman's avatar kwalkerman  ( 2016-09-30 09:28:05 -0500 )edit

@kwalkerman, Fan:OnOff has the option to reference fan power and efficiency curves. If I try using the curves, the output is always zero because the VRF speed ratio is zero. I assume you're not using these curves to modify the fan power or efficiency.

Eric Wilson's avatar Eric Wilson  ( 2016-09-30 09:49:26 -0500 )edit

@Eric Wilson - I do not usually use those curves with Fan:OnOff - if you are getting 0 fan energy use with those curves and VRF, sounds like an issue you need to report to the development team.

kwalkerman's avatar kwalkerman  ( 2016-09-30 09:52:45 -0500 )edit

@kwalkerman, thanks, yes, it looked like a bug to me.

Eric Wilson's avatar Eric Wilson  ( 2016-09-30 09:58:34 -0500 )edit

I add VRF, terminal unit and zone attached to each terminal but where to add coil ?thank you

Brianna's avatar Brianna  ( 2021-05-26 22:34:59 -0500 )edit
2

answered 2015-07-01 16:42:11 -0500

Archmage's avatar

I think it depends if the muliple indoor units are all in the same thermal zone or not. If they are in different zones, then this is VRF. If they are all in the same zone then it is just one big PTHP and you would just ignore the fact that there are really multiple indoor units. You can also model with just a single zone terminal unit using the VRF system, as for a mini-split.

edit flag offensive delete link more

Comments

@Archmage: Yes, they are serving the same zone and it makes more sense to just represent them as one big PTHP, but how you will add their capacities etc.?

Waseem's avatar Waseem  ( 2015-07-01 17:31:51 -0500 )edit

It is hard to say, but I would think the compressor/condenser section would determine the cooling and heating capacities, while the strait sum of indoor units would determine the zone air flow. Time to apply some engineering judgement.

Archmage's avatar Archmage  ( 2015-07-02 06:15:38 -0500 )edit
1

answered 2015-07-01 11:18:14 -0500

I think you can just put your heat pumps in an AHU and then connect them up to the zones with a VAVnoreheat or singleductuncontrolled, depending on whether it is a variable air flow or constant air flow system.

Annie

edit flag offensive delete link more

Comments

1

this would still be one indoor unit and one outdoor unit, but you would be able to supply multiple zones with the one unit.

kwalkerman's avatar kwalkerman  ( 2015-07-01 11:59:39 -0500 )edit

Your Answer

Please start posting anonymously - your entry will be published after you log in or create a new account.

Add Answer

Training Workshops

Careers

Question Tools

1 follower

Stats

Asked: 2015-07-01 08:26:16 -0500

Seen: 755 times

Last updated: Jul 01 '15