EnergyPlus ground domain - Slab-ON-grade with vertical perimeter insulation
EDITED to remove my confusion between the old slab pre-processor vs the newer ground domain functionality, based on Jamie's helpful feedback.
Hi Community
Sorry for long post but I have been trying to understand this for years. I have Googled and looked at some existing topics on this forum, but can't seem to find anything directly discussing my issue. I will CC this to DesignBuilder support for any comment, but I figure it may be more of an EP question than a DB question.
PROBLEM
Re: EP 9.4.0-217a24fc09 with DesignBuilder v. 7.3.1.003 as front-end on MS Windows 11 platform.
I try to model vertical perimeter insulation board placed around the slab-on-ground (concrete surface bed in my local terminology).
For now I am using the "ground domain" approach. (My next thing to try will be Kiva, which looks amazing, but I went for the GD approach because it seems more mature/tested.)
I set up a ground domain as per attached screen snips in DesignBuilder. When I have no insulation, everything runs fine. But with vertical perimeter insulation, I get the following from eplusout.err (full .err file attached):
************* Beginning Simulation
** Severe ** Site:GroundDomain:SlabDoEndOfIterationOperations: Out of range temperatures detected in the ground domain.
** ~~~ ** This could be due to the size of the loads on the domain.
** ~~~ ** Verify inputs are correct. If problem persists, notify EnergyPlus support.
** Fatal ** Preceding error(s) cause program termination
...Summary of Errors that led to program termination:
..... Reference severe error count=1
..... Last severe error=Site:GroundDomain:SlabDoEndOfIterationOperations: Out of range temperatures detected in the ground domain.
*************
************* ===== Recurring Error Summary =====
************* The following recurring error messages occurred.
*************
************* ** Warning ** Temperature out of range [-100. to 200.] (PsyPsatFnTemp)
************* ** ~~~ ** This error occurred 30 total times;
************* ** ~~~ ** during Warmup 0 times;
************* ** ~~~ ** during Sizing 30 times.
************* ** ~~~ ** Max=-1058.994812 C Min=-35351.626953 C
As I understand, a numerical method inside EP is going awry with temperatures shooting off to extreme (cold) values instead of converging nicely.
I have this problem on most occasions that I try to model vertical perimeter insulation. I tried changing aspect ratio, domain size etc thinking I was onto something, but ultimately these were proved to not be the critical parameters. I could never find a pattern to success/failure of the sims.
POSSIBLE SOLUTION
It seems that for my local slab-ON-grade standard building practice (South Africa), with below-grade vertical perimeter insulation against the foundation wall (the below-grade wall above footing) I should rather model as slab-IN-grade with the vertical insulation ticked and just accept some physical inaccuracy due to the slab being modelled in-grade instead of on-grade. I have now done this with three different insulation specs, three sims in a row. All of them ran successfully! For me, this sim reliability was unheard of with [slab-on-grade + vert. perim. insul.]. I'd only get a successful run occasionally, by luck I guess.
QUESTION
Am I correct that for sims using ground domain, slab-on ...
I can't access the files on OneDrive. That being said, this definitely shouldn't be a problem. I use slab-on-grade for all my ground domain modelling and I've never seen any problems with edge insulation.
I think we'd need to see the idfs to guess at what might be going on. I'd normally suggest trying to model it in a simple one-zone cell to make things easier, but if you say you've been having the problem for years it's presumably not just this one model having odd issues...
Argh, OneDrive strikes again. I have now attached the screen snips.
Thank you so much. That is very interesting to hear.
If you/anyone has a chance, please see idf attached in my "answer" below. (I attached it there because I seem to have hit a limit in my original post.)
Taking a look at the idf the soil conductivity and specific heat seem very low (though of course soil properties are highly variable). I found that increasing them did allow the model to run, though it didn't fix the heating sizing errors. Unfortunately I don't know enough about sizing to say what's going on there. I'd probably recommend testing with a simpler model at this point.
On a side note, if you're using pixelcounting it's probably worth being aware of this issue.
Lost my typing now but basically: Thanks so much for looking at this. Am revisiting soil props. Also thanks for the warning about Px counting - I am doing a comparison to help choose solar and shading sim options. Probably will end up using full int & ext with polygon clipping and extra virtual partitions to make all zones convex.