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Unexpected design-day heat flows vs U-values in simple building

asked 2025-04-07 08:14:05 -0500

updated 2025-06-24 09:08:53 -0500

Hi all,

I am trying to replicate a simplified form of the initial scenario from my paper:

https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/16/11/...

a single-zone square bungalow (though 4 equal-size rooms will appear inside in due course) , no floor losses, roof and walls same U-value, no windows or ventilation losses or occupants or other incidental gains. With these values and equilibrium conditions:

 IWL (Internal Wall Length) = 4m, thus whole external wall length 8m.
 IWH (Internal Wall Height) = 2.3m
 EWRU (Effective Wall and Roof U-value): 0.61 W/m2K
 Wall and roof surface: (4x18.4m2 + 64m2) 137.6m2
 Floor non-conducting
 Interior and exterior temperatures at design conditions: 21C / -3C

I calculate in the paper and by hand:

 Expected heat demand at design conditions: ~2000W

But the winter design day in the E+ model below shows ~1400W for several things in eplusout.eso, eg: ZONE ONE,Zone Predicted Sensible Load to Setpoint Heat Transfer Rate [W].

https://github.com/DamonHD/BuildingMo...

I am likely doing something very basic wrong for a 30% error!

You will see that I am a novice at E+, and that this is a work in progress, and that I may just be looking at the wrong things!

Any clues to point me in something like the right direction gratefully received!

UPDATE:

I fudged things to get to 2025W heat demand:

https://github.com/DamonHD/BuildingMo...

I'm not entirely happy with it (I don't understand enough) and there are some coordinate errors later fixed, but it's progress. Thanks for all suggestions.

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Comments

1

Did you check that the floor has no heat transfer? That would be the first thing I checked.

rraustad's avatar rraustad  ( 2025-04-09 09:54:30 -0500 )edit

I believe that the floor is transferring almost no heat, eg see the eplusout.eso file:

13,1,ZONE SURFACE FLOOR,Surface Average Face Conduction Heat Transfer Rate [W] !Hourly

13,-0.0018914190241975089

But also I am seeing the walls and roof transmit LESS heat than I expect, ie the building is losing LESS heat than expected given the conditions.

Thank you for your time!

DamonHD's avatar DamonHD  ( 2025-04-09 14:27:42 -0500 )edit
2

You can execute ReadVarsESO.exe or RunReadESO.bat (double click either file) in the same folder as your eso and you will get eplusout.csv where you can plot time-series data in excel. This may help identify sources of error.

rraustad's avatar rraustad  ( 2025-04-09 16:24:32 -0500 )edit

Thanks: I did not know about that utility! I am having a little difficulty with the version on my Mac, but I'll get there. At the moment the .eso file is short enough to read by eye and each hour of the design day seems pretty much identical, and identically wrong/unexpected. Thanks again for pointing out the tool.

DamonHD's avatar DamonHD  ( 2025-04-09 20:32:47 -0500 )edit
2

When running your model with Birmingham climate data, getting ~1830W (vs 1600W) for heating. Switching the following:

  • Building Terrain to "Country" (vs "Suburbs")
  • Surface Convection Algorithm:Inside to "Simple" (vs "TARP")
  • Surface Convection Algorithm:Outside to "SimpleCombined" (vs "TARP")

... gives ~2121W (+16%). Not stating you should apply these - but maybe dig a bit deeper into environmental parameters. Cheers.

Denis Bourgeois's avatar Denis Bourgeois  ( 2025-04-10 14:36:30 -0500 )edit

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answered 2025-04-21 10:52:41 -0500

edwinguerra's avatar

One consideration from my understanding is that the .ddy file provides the design day data. In your case, it looks like the winter design dry bulb in the ddy file is -5.2C (January), yet your Github suggests you are trying to replicate a -3C outdoor air condition. Wouldn't the simulation also account for the thermal mass of your wall assembly? All this to say, there are many ways in which the results could be affected. I still hope more of the E+ experts chime in.

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Hi! Thanks for looking!

1) Which .ddy file? I have not supplied one.

2) This simple scenario is meant to be at equilibrium and so thermal capacity should not be not relevant. (Have a look at the paper for more detail.)

DamonHD's avatar DamonHD  ( 2025-04-21 11:47:19 -0500 )edit

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Asked: 2025-04-07 08:10:56 -0500

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Last updated: Jun 24