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Unexplained CO2 dilution with inter-zone air mixing

asked 2024-10-14 06:49:04 -0600

MatteoMerli's avatar

updated 2024-10-18 10:00:39 -0600

Hi,

I’m currently observing unexpected CO2 reductions when connecting occupied zones to empty spaces through inter-zone mixing.

I recreated the problem in a simplified model consisting of one occupied room and an empty volume next to it. I tested the model both with and without air mixing, and tried three different sizes for the adjacent volume: 3 m³, 15 m³, and 150 m³. The fresh air enters only through infiltration (no natural or mechanical ventilation).

image description

The below chart shows the CO2 concentration in the occupied room on a typical afternoon.

image description

It seems strange to me that the CO2 concentration during occupied hours is highly diluted even when connected to a small fresh air volume (3 m³), and that the differences between 3 m³, 15 m³, and 150 m³ are not as significant as the difference between no air mixing and air mixing with a small volume.

I’m wondering if there might be an issue in how E+ simulates the CO2 transfer between zones, potentially leading to an overestimation of the mixing effect, even if the CO2 transfer due to interzone air mixing seems to be correctly accounted for in the zone air CO2 balance algorithm.

Here's the IDF: idf file

Some additional details:

Looking for feedback from developers or anyone familiar with the CO2 mixing algorithms under these conditions.

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What are the infiltration rate [m3/s] and the outdoor air CO2 concentrtaion [ppm]?

Keigo's avatar Keigo  ( 2024-10-14 09:09:53 -0600 )edit

The infiltration rate is 0.0003 m³/s per m² of exterior surface area, and the outdoor air CO2 concentration is set to 450 ppm (constant).

MatteoMerli's avatar MatteoMerli  ( 2024-10-14 10:15:16 -0600 )edit

Your chart looks reasonable. I'll answer when I have time.

Keigo's avatar Keigo  ( 2024-10-14 10:38:18 -0600 )edit

In brief, I think you should refer to this equetion in Engineering Reference and try to calculate the indoor CO2 concentration at 21:00 (one hour after the occupied hours). The calculated indoor CO2 concentration will be very close to your chart. I have an Excel sheet to calculate it, but unfortunately I can't share it with you.

Keigo's avatar Keigo  ( 2024-10-14 10:59:45 -0600 )edit

Thanks for your input. I’m familiar with the equation you’re referring to, but my concern isn’t just about reproducing the CO2 levels at a specific time. My concern is more about how mixing with a small volume drastically reduces CO2 during occupancy, which seems out of proportion to the expected impact. That’s where I think there might be a potential issue with how E+ is simulating the CO2 transfer between zones. Or if you can explain the logic behind this and why the charts seem reasonable, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts.

MatteoMerli's avatar MatteoMerli  ( 2024-10-15 03:39:39 -0600 )edit

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answered 2024-10-16 01:48:44 -0600

Keigo's avatar

You have updated your question and I understand it.

What is the zone mixing air flow rate [m3/s]? I think it is too large, such as 1m3/s. That's the cause of the dilution during occupied hours in your model. The smallest empty volume next to the occupied room is 3m3. If TimeStep in your model is 6 (i.e. 10min), I think the zone mixing air flow rate should be 3m3 / 10min = 0.005m3/s at maximum. larger values than 0.005m3/s are unrealistic given the logic of ZoneMixing and ZoneCrossMixing.

I'm not going to dig into this issue any further, but why don't you share your idf files, especially if you ask the developers for debugging? Your model doesn't appear to be confidential.

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Comments

Yes, I added "during occupied hours" because I noticed your focus was on what happens after people leave the room. When I mentioned dilution, I was referring to the balance of CO2 concentrations between the two rooms: one with a CO2 source (people) and the other acting as a fresh air reservoir.

As you suggested, I’ve added a link to access the IDF file (I wasn't able to upload it here).

Regarding your question, the zone mixing air flow rate in my simulation is 1.5 m³/s, based on the partition wall size (15 m²) and an airspeed of 0.1 m/s, assuming fans are moving air between the rooms.

MatteoMerli's avatar MatteoMerli  ( 2024-10-18 09:44:42 -0600 )edit

I tested a lower airflow of 0.01 m³/s (3 m³ every 5 minutes), which gave more reasonable results. I’ve uploaded the figure with the results to the same drive folder of the IDF. The empty rooms (dotted) fill more gradually with CO2, and the occupied rooms (solid) show lower dilution.

However, in my original project, the aim is to simulate higher air speeds to enhance dilution when the room is occupied, for example using fans. But as seen in this simplified model, it seems that the balance is disrupted, with some CO2 lost somewhere in the process.

MatteoMerli's avatar MatteoMerli  ( 2024-10-18 09:49:56 -0600 )edit

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Asked: 2024-10-14 06:49:04 -0600

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Last updated: Oct 18