Question-and-Answer Resource for the Building Energy Modeling Community
Get started with the Help page
Ask Your Question
3

EnergyPlus KIVA error

asked 2021-06-24 06:59:40 -0600

Tim's avatar

updated 2021-07-01 12:15:32 -0600

Hi - following the walkout basement example for KIVA provided with EnergyPlus I am getting the following error when I remove vertical and horizontal insulation from the Foundation:Kiva object.

 Program Version,EnergyPlus, Version 9.4.0-998c4b761e, YMD=2021.06.23 22:13,
   ** Severe  ** Kiva: A cell has been assigned to multiple surfaces.
   **  Fatal  ** Kiva: Errors discovered, program terminates.

I can circumvent the issue by using 1mm of insulation as shown below. But what if I don’t want to model insulation? When I remove the ground coupled basement walls and just set their boundary condition to “ground” the error goes away but I suppose Kiva will work with incorrect section profiles as it does not know about the walls anymore.

Foundation:Kiva,
    KIVA_Zone_0,             !- Name
    ,                        !- Initial Indoor Air Temperature {C}
    Basement Insulation,     !- Interior Horizontal Insulation Material Name
    ,                        !- Interior Horizontal Insulation Depth {m}
    0.001,                   !- Interior Horizontal Insulation Width {m}
    ,                        !- Interior Vertical Insulation Material Name
    ,                        !- Interior Vertical Insulation Depth {m}
    ,                        !- Exterior Horizontal Insulation Material Name
    ,                        !- Exterior Horizontal Insulation Depth {m}
    ,                        !- Exterior Horizontal Insulation Width {m}
    Basement Insulation,     !- Exterior Vertical Insulation Material Name
    0.001,                     !- Exterior Vertical Insulation Depth {m}
    0.001,                     !- Wall Height Above Grade {m}
    0.001;                     !- Wall Depth Below Slab {m}

And what is the best way to troubleshoot the above error. Is there a way to export the FE slices/profiles and take a look at them?

edit retag flag offensive close merge delete

Comments

@Tim this is a very rare error that could indicate a defect in the source code. I will try to reproduce the error and see if I can't figure out what's going on. By the way, if you remove the walls and set their boundary condition to "Ground" you are basically just modeling a slab foundation (and no longer a basement) in Kiva.

Neal Kruis's avatar Neal Kruis  ( 2021-06-24 09:28:00 -0600 )edit

@Tim did you make any change to the default settings in the Foundation:Kiva:Settings object?

shorowit's avatar shorowit  ( 2021-06-24 10:41:53 -0600 )edit

I tried without (then KIVA should use defaults) and I tried with the provided settings from the example.

Tim's avatar Tim  ( 2021-06-24 10:47:40 -0600 )edit

1 Answer

Sort by » oldest newest most voted
2

answered 2021-06-24 10:29:17 -0600

updated 2021-06-30 10:27:33 -0600

Update 2

There is a bug where the automatic deep ground depth for shallow water tables isn't getting set to 1m below the bottom of the foundation like it should. You can get around this in your file by explicitly defining the deep ground depth in Foundation:Kiva:Settings:

Foundation:Kiva:Settings,
  ,                        !- Soil Conductivity {W/m-K}
  ,                        !- Soil Density {kg/m3}
  ,                        !- Soil Specific Heat {J/kg-K}
  ,                        !- Ground Solar Absorptivity {dimensionless}
  ,                        !- Ground Thermal Absorptivity {dimensionless}
  ,                        !- Ground Surface Roughness {m}
  ,                        !- Far-Field Width {m}
  GroundWater,             !- Deep-Ground Boundary Condition
  14;                      !- Deep-Ground Depth {m}

We will work on a fix for this in the next release of EnergyPlus.

Note: The water table depth can have a large impact on foundation heat transfer. Boston's airport is all of 20 feet above sea level, but your actual building's location may be further from the water table. You may want to adjust your assumptions accordingly.

Update (unrelated bug)

When I run your file through the debugger I get a memory access error related to the daylighting controls. This error won't appear in the release version of EnergyPlus. If I remove your daylight control object everything runs through fine (daylighting controls don't do much without windows in your model anyway 😉).

My best guess is that the memory that is actually being accessed (and written to) is overriding a value used in the Kiva setup and preventing it from generating surface assignments properly. Crazy, right!? (Turns out this isn't the case.) We will work on a fix for this in the next release.

By the way, I'm curious why you are splitting the floor into two surfaces? The way you have it set up, you should modify the SurfaceProperty:ExposedFoundationPerimeter objects to exclude the perimeter of each floor surface where they meet, otherwise the simulation will treat each surface as though the ground on the other side is the exterior grade (and overestimate the heat losses through the ground). You can also resolve this by defining a single floor surface with an exposed perimeter fraction of 1.0.

Previous answer:

I am unable to reproduce the problem you are describing in the walkout basement example. How are you removing the insulation from the Foundation:Kiva object?

This is what I used (notice the prior field values that are commented out):

Foundation:Kiva,
  Basement Foundation,     !- Name
  ,                        !- Initial Indoor Air Temperature {C}
  , !Basement Insulation,  !- Interior Horizontal Insulation Material Name
  ,                        !- Interior Horizontal Insulation Depth {m}
  , !1,                    !- Interior Horizontal Insulation Width {m}
  ,                        !- Interior Vertical Insulation Material Name
  ,                        !- Interior Vertical Insulation Depth {m}
  ,                        !- Exterior Horizontal Insulation Material Name
  ,                        !- Exterior Horizontal Insulation Depth {m}
  ,                        !- Exterior Horizontal Insulation Width {m}
  , !Basement Insulation,  !- Exterior Vertical Insulation Material Name
  , !2.9,                  !- Exterior Vertical Insulation Depth {m}
  0.2,                     !- Wall Height Above Grade {m}
  0.3,                     !- Wall Depth Below Slab {m}
  ;                        !- Footing Wall Construction Name

Even if this works for you, can you send the file that you used to produce the original error? That error really should never appear for a user, and ... (more)

edit flag offensive delete link more

Comments

Thanks for your reply, Neal. Maybe I am missing something in my setup. I am attaching my IDF file here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kals8xwrnmu...

Tim's avatar Tim  ( 2021-06-24 10:46:15 -0600 )edit

just leaving the Wall Height Above Grade and Wall Depth Below Slab in the Foundation:KIVA object does not work for me. Gives me the same error.

Tim's avatar Tim  ( 2021-06-24 10:56:32 -0600 )edit

@Tim I updated my answer after looking into your file. Turns out it isn't a problem with your Kiva set up at all...

Neal Kruis's avatar Neal Kruis  ( 2021-06-24 11:47:59 -0600 )edit

@neal-kruis thanks that's an interesting find. The model I sent was just a stripped-down example. Does this memory leak still happen when there are DL controls with windows?

The split slab was just added for testing. No particular reason.

Tim's avatar Tim  ( 2021-06-24 12:13:46 -0600 )edit

I believe you could also resolve the issue by adding a window to the zone (but I haven't tested this). The actual problem is that many of the daylighting arrays are not allocated unless there is a window in the zone.

Neal Kruis's avatar Neal Kruis  ( 2021-06-24 12:18:32 -0600 )edit

@neal - out of curiosity - is there a good way to output diagnostic info from KIVA in E+. I .e. pngs of the 2d FE sections or temperatures?

Tim's avatar Tim  ( 2021-06-24 12:18:56 -0600 )edit

Not at this moment. The plotting library I've used in the past does not have a compatible license with EnergyPlus. I've talked with others about how we can add this functionality and I think we will pitch something for the next round of enhancements.

Neal Kruis's avatar Neal Kruis  ( 2021-06-24 12:24:30 -0600 )edit

Hi Neal - I followed your suggestion and removed the dl controls and I am still getting the same error. Here are the files again: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8z7k27qpxc8... I also tried adding a window and get the same problem.

Tim's avatar Tim  ( 2021-06-24 12:35:39 -0600 )edit

Hmmm...I'll test again on a Windows build. It works for me on Mac.

Neal Kruis's avatar Neal Kruis  ( 2021-06-24 12:47:27 -0600 )edit

Hi Neal - any update regarding this issue above? Can you reproduce the error on Windows?

Tim's avatar Tim  ( 2021-06-25 10:43:35 -0600 )edit

Your Answer

Please start posting anonymously - your entry will be published after you log in or create a new account.

Add Answer

Training Workshops

Careers

Question Tools

1 follower

Stats

Asked: 2021-06-24 06:59:40 -0600

Seen: 437 times

Last updated: Jun 30 '21