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LEEDv4 Kitchens G3.1.1 Exception d

asked 2019-11-11 18:07:42 -0500

updated 2020-01-19 12:09:18 -0500

LEEDv4 90.1-2010. Have a large project, >1Mil SF. all electric; thus the Baseline Systems are System 8 + system 4 for systems meeting G3.1.1 Exception (b). There is a question regarding using gas heat in the Kitchen(s) MAU's in the Proposed model. These units would be providing make-up air for the hood exhaust. Under G3.1.1 Exception (d) should the Baseline units get to be gas as well? Or, does this some how oddly force the entire building into being gas-heating under some 'hybrid makes it gas' interpretation? Would be interested to hear from others who've experienced this with LEED.

I have reviewed LI-10285, but kitchens are not used as an example unfortunately.

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answered 2019-11-12 08:04:21 -0500

Is the kitchen greater than 20,000 sf? If so you can use exception a) in combination with exception d) so that the proposed would be all electric with gas heat for Kitchen MAU and baseline would be system 8 and system 4 for everything except the kitchen which would be system 7.

If the kitchen is less than 20,000 sf, then it gets tricky. It may depend on the LEED reviewer you get and their interpretation, but I could argue based on the note from Table G3.1.1A, indicated below, that the predominant condition is System Type 8 and that exception b) is used to include System Type 4 where appropriate and exception d) is used for including System Type 7 in kitchens since the building isn't technically all-electric (note that exception d states to use electric resistance heating for all-electric buildings).

Where attributes make a building eligible for more than one baseline system type, use the predominant condition to determine the system type for the entire building except as noted in Exception a to Section G3.1.1.

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@anchapin this is exactly the huge level of grey. I've got to work with the design team to get a fuller understanding of the kitchen(s) which will be in the project. I feel better about using Exception (d) for kitchens; though that last sentence cuts both ways. If the MAU's were to be electric, the building would definitely be all-electric and that sentence explicitly makes the MAU's electric. If the prouject has gas MAU's, the building is now not all-electric; but should my Baseline MAU's become gas or are the electric since my building is all electric?

dradair gravatar image dradair  ( 2019-11-12 09:59:06 -0500 )edit

I can argue both ways....I'd argue Baseline MAU's being gas if the Proposed are holds them more even & not take ill-gotten savings from forcing those Baseline units to Electric. I could argue the Baseline MAU's should be electric b/c of that last sentence.

As far as exception (a) - goingto have to work with design team to confirm the area.

dradair gravatar image dradair  ( 2019-11-12 10:01:24 -0500 )edit
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You make a good point about the all-electric building statement. The crux of the issue is the "Fossil/Electric Hybrid" category in Table G3.1.1A. However, I believe that refers to cases when the predominant condition is a system with both fossil and electric heating such as DOAS with gas heat providing ventilation to PTHPs or something like that. In your case, the predominant condition is electric heating systems in the Proposed and then you use the exceptions as applicable. The main question then is whether to use electric resistance for the Baseline kitchen MAU. I would say no.

anchapin gravatar image anchapin  ( 2019-11-12 10:06:48 -0500 )edit
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answered 2019-11-12 13:07:19 -0500

Anthony Hardman gravatar image

We were contracted GBCI reviewers once upon a time and I think most reviewers would allow the baseline kitchen to be served by system 5/7 while the rest of the building is considered all electric. If your company is a "Proven Provider" or you have one on your team you can request a call prior to submission to confirm your approach before formally submitting.

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Asked: 2019-11-11 18:07:42 -0500

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Last updated: Nov 12 '19