Severe Error Temperature out of bounds

asked 2015-08-12 13:07:14 -0600

Annie Marston
4317 ●5 ●32 http://www.resustain.com

updated 2015-08-12 13:36:51 -0600

Neal Kruis

4735 ●10 ●17 http://bigladdersoftware.com/

I am getting the following error:

   ** Severe  ** Temperature (high) out of bounds (200.28] for zone="00.7.CAFE", for surface="SURFACE 604"
   **   ~~~   **  During Warmup, Environment=GENEVA ANN CLG .4% CONDNS DB=>MWB, at Simulation time=07/21 08:30 - 08:35
   **   ~~~   ** Zone="00.7.CAFE", Diagnostic Details:
   **   ~~~   ** ...Internal Heat Gain [117.696] W/m2
   **   ~~~   ** ...Infiltration/Ventilation [1.670E-002] m3/s
   **   ~~~   ** ...Mixing/Cross Mixing [0.000] m3/s
   **   ~~~   ** ...Zone is part of HVAC controlled system.
   **  Fatal  ** CalcHeatBalanceInsideSurf: Program terminates due to preceding conditions.

and then these suggestions:

   ************* ===== Final Error Summary =====
   ************* The following error categories occurred.  Consider correcting or noting.
   ************* Temperature (high) out of bounds
   ************* ..A temperature out of bounds problem can be caused by several things. The user should check:
   ************* ..1) the weather environment (including the horizontal IR from sky)
   ************* ..2) the level of interal gains with respect to the zone
   ************* ..3) the thermal properties of their materials.  And other things.
   ************* ..A common cause is a building with no or little thermal mass - all materials with Material:NoMassdefinitions.

However, I have tried each of these suggestions and nothing is working. I have a LEED baseline model running for this building with a standard VAV reheat system. For the proposed case model with the error, I have put the exact same geometry, constructions and internal loads in as well as plant loop. The difference is I have radiant ceilings and a DOAS. I have modelled this system multiple times without error but for some reason this time there is something wrong. Can anyone suggest where I should look for possible solutions.

As always thanks in advance for the help. Annie

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is 'SURFACE 604' related to the radiant ceilings?

David Goldwasser ( 2015-08-12 14:08:25 -0600 )edit

@davidGoldwasser It is a radiant surface, however this error jumps around from surface to surface, although they are all radiant surfaces, so I should check those components. We usually hard size these as in the past the autosize feature has been going a bit crazy for us. Do you have any advice on areas that might be problematic in these components?

Annie Marston ( 2015-08-12 14:53:53 -0600 )edit

I had this problem, and I solved it by correcting the big amount of receptacle load assigned to the space containing the surface.

Angelibus ( 2016-11-29 09:22:48 -0600 )edit

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answered 2015-08-12 16:31:57 -0600

Annie Marston
4317 ●5 ●32 http://www.resustain.com

So what I said wasn't quite true, my plant loop was slightly different and didn't have a chiller, so I put the Chiller back in. I also found that my flow rates in my single ducts where not the same added together as in my AHU so I corrected that and now my simulation runs fine! Thanks @OS-user-AT and @DavidGoldwasser sometimes it just helps to talk about the problem. One other thing, I autosized my radiant ceilings and the whole simulation did a hard crash. I put the sizing back in and it ran fine, but I just wanted to mention it for completeness.

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answered 2015-08-12 14:25:23 -0600

OS-user-AT

2284 ●3 ●14 https://mak-analytics.com

updated 2015-08-12 14:31:48 -0600

I have encountered Temperature out of bounds messages in many cases in my models, especially with heat-pumps. The ways to eliminate such problems are manyfold. Successfull approaches have been:

run the model with extensive output on various variables (even down to System node temperatures etc.) that can help to understand how the model behaves, and may explain where the excessive temperatures come from; I usually use ResultsViewer to diagnose the origin of the problem
Check: does your model converge at all ? - Then the output is not reliable
Are you able to eliminate all other warnings in the err-file, or at least to justify ignoring them; (have you chosen the all/extra warnings for output ?)
non-convergence can be due e.g. to badly chosen setpoints or setpoint managers, bad sizing assumptions
You could also selectively switch off/on heating or cooling components in order to analyze under which conditions your model converges and does not run into temperatures out of bounds.
controlling the behaviour of the system can be improved by replacing conventional schedules by EMS-driven schedules: By implementing a logic for deploying heating/cooling components I have also been able to eliminate Temperature-out-of-bounds messages.

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Thanks, one of my issues is that I can't get a run to work so I can't check any outputs for errors. I will try switching on and off components though to see if that helps. As I say we have modelled these systems numerous times before so the controls are well known to us. But of course that doesn't mean there isn't an error in there somewhere. Thanks for your suggestions I will give them a go.

Annie Marston ( 2015-08-12 14:56:26 -0600 )edit

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